Thursday, October 23, 2008

Why I’m Voting for Obama – A Conservative Republican’s Tale of Change

Ok I know I covered most of this already, but I keep finding myself defending my position to family and friends. Most of my friends are die hard Republicans. An even greater number are extremely conservative, and lately I find myself more on the defensive than in agreement. As anyone who’s read this blog knows I’ve changed my decision on who I will vote for a few times, but I believe that I’ve reached my final decision. Come November 4th I will cast my vote for Barack Obama, and break with my party for the first time in 12 years.

In a campaign where “Change” is the key component, the core principal behind each candidate’s words and actions; what has caused so many voters to “Change” their party, or “Change” their vote? For me the answer is a multifaceted, complex answer based on hours of self examination, research, and prayer. I have quite a few disagreements with Obama’s stance on the issues but I still feel he’d make a better President than John McCain. This blog is more an answer for my friends and family, a place to organize my thoughts, and simply point them to the site to explain my decision. So I’ll start with the first issue that most of my friends start off with.

Question : How can a Christian conservative vote for a man who supports abortion?

Answer: As anyone who knows me, or has read my thoughts on the subject knows, I despise abortion. I find it equivalent to first degree murder, and feel that it should be outlawed. But my answer for this is actually a simple one. This is a topic that NEITHER party will EVER do anything about. Consider the fact that in the 35 years since Roe v. Wade a Republican has sat in the White House 20 of those years. Most will argue that the inability to repeal this is due to liberal judges on the Supreme Court, but I don’t feel this to be the case. I honestly think that both sides secretly like this issue where it is. It’s a dividing issue, it’s a clear cut for or against issue that brings in millions of votes for both parties. Yes ladies and gentlemen abortion is the last ditch hope of both parties. Republicans call on it to scare voters to vote Republican “John Doe voted to kill babies, do you want John Doe in office? He’s a baby killer.” Democrats use it to scare voters by saying “Vote for us or those Republicans will take away your God given right to choose. They’ll remove control over your own body and force their morality on you.” In truth the only thing that can outlaw abortions in this country is a change of heart by Americans everywhere. Americans will first have to understand that life, even simple life, is precious and should be preserved and kept safe. Until then Americans will continue to see abortion as a choice.

Questions: How can a fiscal conservative vote for a Democrat? His policies are just going to hurt the country. Obama just wants to spread the wealth I’ve worked so hard to build. Obama is going to spend more tax money than McCain, and take us into a deeper hole.

Answer: This is one where I agree with both sides. On the one hand you have Obama that states that people are suffering, and greed is rampant in big business. On the other hand you have McCain who believes that lower taxes are good for the economy and that as businesses do well their wealth will trickle down to the little guy.

This is actually a pretty old idea called Reaganomics, for those of you old enough to remember it. The concept worked once, and personally I believe the boom during the Clinton era was the result of Reagan’s trickle down theory. So if it worked once why not now? The 1980’s were a different time. Yes greed was prevalent back then too, but greed took a back seat to national pride during the cold war, not to mention that our economy was nowhere near as global as it is now. American companies have gotten used to the idea of exporting their work to other countries. Doing so helps raise profit margins, which attract investors, which allows companies to grow.

While I do believe that those who work hard should keep the fruit of their labor, I strongly feel that the trickle has been clogged by greed, and is no longer trickling but dripping down. American companies have all but closed the faucet when it comes to bringing work back to the country. No work means higher unemployment, which eventually leads to a slowing economy, and as seen recently recession. This in a nutshell is my reason for voting for Obama. McCain’s approach is to lower taxes across the board for corporations and allow companies to come back on their own. The problem, as I see it, is that they won’t come back because even with lower taxes, the American workforce is just too expensive for any smart business man to even consider.

For me Obama’s answer of giving tax breaks specifically to companies who bring work back to the US coupled with removing tax breaks for those who export work will give the right incentive to create more domestic jobs. Obama’s idea of investing in renewable energy and creating jobs in this area are a win-win for our country. Renewable energy jobs in the area of wind and solar means less reliance on foreign oil and lower unemployment.

Let’s face it McCain himself has said that he knows little to nothing about the economy. When compared to Obama’s plan, McCain’s plan for the economy will raise the national debt by $5 trillion dollars as opposed to Obama’s $3.5 trillion dollars. This is the same national debt that has gotten so high, that the billboard in New York designed to track it, required an additional number place. In effect McCain’s plan of sticking to previous methods is simply not enough to bring this country back to good. In fact I personally see it hurting us in the long run. Here’s a great article on the subject.

Questions: Why should I have to pay for someone else’s health benefits? Isn’t nationalized healthcare going to ruin the industry? Healthcare is a privilege not a right.

Answer: I’ve actually changed my view on this several times. Both sides make sense, and I’m floating somewhere in the middle right now. First I believe quality healthcare to be a right not a privilege. Everyone is entitled to the right to live, and in my eyes Americans would be exhibiting the utmost cruelty in allowing their fellow citizens to simply die because they don’t have the money to afford lifesaving care. As anyone who’s ever read this blog knows, I’m in favor of serious welfare reform, and I’d hate to see healthcare become as bad as the Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and welfare systems.

That being said, McCain’s plan does nothing to improve the situation. McCain’s plan to tax on one hand while crediting with the other is nothing short of asinine. This does nothing for the millions of Americans without healthcare, and based on several independent estimates, could actually ruin our current lousy system. While I don’t personally favor giving things away for free, I do have to concede that one way or another we the people will end up paying the price. If we do nothing, people will continue to walk out on their hospital bills, which will eventually raise prices, which are passed on to us. If we do nothing, people will continue to put off seeking treatment for minor problems, which can and usually do become major problems. Eventually these people have a way of ending up in our Medicaid system, and costing taxpayers millions because they were never given preventive care.

Another common argument I hear is that social healthcare leads to bad doctors and bad care. Personally I haven’t studied this as much as I’d like, but I also don’t feel that this would be the case under Obama’s plan. If Obama is indeed looking to bring the uninsured under an insurance company plan then the plan will be administered by an insurance company, and not the government. That should negate the issues we’ve seen with Medicaid / Medicare, where doctors put off patients in lieu of patients with better coverage.

In addition I’ve noticed that hospitals have become more profit centric, and have lost their focus, which is to treat patients as best as possible. My cousin shared with me a story about his daughter’s last birth, which I think fits very nicely. Apparently the hospital closest to where he lives is in a nice well to do neighborhood. In order to keep its swanky image it has gone as far as provide food based on near gourmet recipes. While this sounds great for the relatives of the patient, it’s not really needed. Hospitals need to remember that they exist to treat patients. They have sworn the oath of “Do no harm” by proxy, and must share in that responsibility with the doctors. So will our healthcare suffer as a result of socialized medicine? It might but then again this isn’t truly socialized medicine Obama is suggesting, it’s a strange new hybrid. Either way it’s leaps and bounds above McCains plan.

While I can concede that giving away the farm ala Welfare and Medicaid does nothing to improve or instill the sense of self worth needed to drive people to the kind of action that will improve their situation, I must also admit that doing nothing will just foster a larger division between the haves and have nots. This division, over time, turns into resentment, bringing only a sense of never being able to succeed and blaming their problems on “the man”. With a subject as important as someone’s basic right to life and quality healthcare, we cannot sit idly by and do nothing.

Questions: Don’t you think Obama is too inexperienced to be President? Do you really trust him to make the tough decisions? Isn’t McCain better suited to deal with foreign policy?

Answers: In truth I do feel that Obama is untested, but capable of leadership. I once joked that giving Obama the Precidency was like giving a manager of the local McDonalds the position of CEO of Walmart. While his lack of testing under pressure does bother me, the fact that there are always advisors to help guide him reassures me. From what I’ve seen Obama has the intelligence and self control to handle himself in just about any situation. While John McCain is intelligent enough to handle a situation, I do not feel him to be in control of his temper or general feelings enough to handle certain situations. During this election I have watch as both men endorsed some pretty unfavorable ads against each other, but McCains seemed to stem more from desperation and anger. During the debates I have watched Obama handle himself with resolve and dignity, while McCain resorted to name calling and quick one liners.

Anyone who has ever been married for more than a few years knows that quick comebacks are usually the ones that hurt the most. Quick comebacks are instinctual, and usually involve statements better left unsaid. McCain has shown his proficiency for quick comebacks time and time again, and it has hurt him in my eyes. At this time in our nation’s history, we are embroiled in two wars, one of which is almost as unpopular as Vietnam, and we are quickly seeing our once strong international allies turn against us. As a result of the international dislike towards America we need, more than ever, a President who is willing to set aside differences and open discussions. We need a President who is capable of showing both our friends and enemies a calm, but firm resolve; Obama for me is that man.

Many have criticized Obama for his willingness to speak to the Castros and Chavezes of the world, but in truth embargos have failed, stiff necked diplomacy has failed, and the only thing that’s going to work is the calm, rational dialog that has been absent for the past eight years. You see Reagan was forceful, Reagan was strong willed, but Reagan was also willing to discuss, bargain, and sit down with his enemies. Had he not been the Berlin wall would probably still stand today.

Questions: Why shouldn’t we stay in Iraq? Obama wants to pull out and cost us the war, don’t the Iraqi people deserve to be free?

Answer: In my opinion there are more reasons to get out of Iraq than there are to stay. First and foremost is the FACT, not speculation but FACT, that Iraq is un-winnable. The problems in the Middle east are not some recent development, nor are they something that can be fixed by Democracy. The problems between the Muslims and Jews, and even between Muslim factions have their basis in religion, and an argument that has prevailed for over 3000 years. Jews believe that they are God’s chosen people, the beloved of God through Abraham’s son Isaac Gen. 16:12. Muslims believe that they are God’s chosen people the beloved of God through Abraham’s son Ishmael.

With this in mind Jews and Muslims are not fighting a war based solely on territory, they are fighting a war based on opposing religious ideologies. In addition to the many conflicts between Israel and the Muslim world, we have division within the Muslim community itself. The history here is too great to get into, but the basic premise is that they hate each other. With all of this in mind, we Americans, who don’t really understand the problem, have no hope of finding a solution. America is now smack in the middle of a civil war between two opposing factions that don’t see eye to eye on anything. This isn’t simply like the difference between Democrats or Republicans, these people have been, and are willing to kill for their religious beliefs to succeed.

Furthermore the notion that Iraq was ever about bringing democracy to the Iraqi people is ludicrous. The Iraq war was started partly from fear and reaction to 9-11, and partly from our desire to secure our need for oil. In the months following 9-11 our country underwent a change of mind, from the once proud can do attitude we all shared to the fearful terrorist in every corner feelings we now share. Our country has not been held hostage by fear this great since the McCarthy era. The only war we need to face right now is the war with our own fears. The terrorists have already done their part; they’ve shown us how vulnerable we are, they’ve goaded us into two wars, and they’ve all but succeeded in crippling our economy as a result. They’ve turned international opinion against us, and caused division among us. They’ve done what they set out to do.

As a result of 9-11 we’ve seen the largest increase in government in my lifetime. We have seen several of the civil liberties that made us a great nation erode. We have seen a drastic division between those who are for the war and those who are against it. We have become a nation divided, where the fear of being labeled unpatriotic hangs over Americans everywhere. The only way to truly WIN this war is to pick a side, preside over the largest genocidal acts since the holocaust, and loose our humanity in the process. We cannot win in Iraq because Iraq cannot be settled diplomatically. There are simply too many variables that our Western minds cannot embrace; therefore the only solution is withdrawal.

Conclusion

This year I vote not because I agree with Obama on everything, but because I believe he will be better suited to run this country. I feel that our current situation as a nation warrants a drastic change from the norm. I believe that we need a fresh face with a different approach to bring about change. God help me if I’m wrong, but I just don’t see McCain bringing the kind of change we need.

22 comments:

Anonymous said...

While in office Obama will make it easier to have an abortion, a longer term abortion will be legalized, our tax money will be used more freely to fund abortions throughout the world, and a law will be firmly put in place that no measures will be taken to save the life of a baby born alive during the abortive(murder)procedure. These trends would not take place under McCain. As a Christian I could vote on this issue alone and know that I did what God expects of me as a child of His. If one INNOCENT/VOICELESS life were saved it would be worth it. I will leave my words at that and add this. The Bible says "the word of God is sharper than a two-edged sword". I believe this to be true and know that a Christian will be convicted by the word of God through the Holy Spirit. Verses that are applicable are as follows:
"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other". "So, because you are Lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth".
"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world".
"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb".
"It would be better if they had never known the way to righteousness than to know it and then reject the command they were given to live a holy life".
In closing you said "God help me if I am wrong"? I would just say "God help you" and will pray the same.

Michael Diaz said...

Keep in mind that before a President can do anything he needs to get it through both the House and the Senate. Obama can no more make it easier to have an abortion than he can call for a nuclear strike; without first having Congress sign off on it.

Abortion is an issue which angers and upsets people on both sides Democrat and Republican. Partial Birth abortions have already been banned, as has the practice of not providing help to a child born alive of a botched abortion.

Americans have spoken on the matter, and have made it clear that killing a child while being born, or allowing a new born child to die is wrong. It would be political suicide for him to even consider reversing either of those laws.

As for who will keep the mostly Democratic Congress in line? We the people will, buy flooding their offices with calls when we don’t like what’s going on. Again I don’t agree with everything the man stands for, nor do I look up to him and buy into his every whim, but in the issues that matter to Americans RIGHT NOW, Obama is the better candidate.

Is he lying about some things? He’s a politician, who makes speeches, it’s hard to tell when he’s not lying. But based on temperament alone he has a better chance at being a decent President than a hot head like McCain.

Remember choosing a President is not about one or two issues. It’s about doing what will be right for the country in the long run. It’s not about upholding my Christian beliefs over someone’s atheistic non belief, but about enforcing the rights of all to have or not have beliefs. When choosing a President we need to ask what Reagan asked when up against Carter. Are we better off than we were 8 years ago? My answer is a resounding NO. I’m worse off, and so is the country. While McCain touts himself to be a “Maverick”, a term I’m getting sick and tired of hearing, he is still a mirror image of Bush in my eyes. Not because of Obama’s negative commercials, but because they do share a lot of the same ideology, which has gotten us into this mess to begin with. McCain’s insistence to win this war will drive the US bankrupt, and I for one do not want to live through another Great Depression.

Anonymous said...

god......lol

Leave god out of politics. Plain and simple.

Anonymous said...

"But based on temperament alone he has a better chance at being a decent President than a hot head like McCain".

Interesting statement?


A article from CNN 2007:

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Supreme Court on Wednesday upheld a law that banned a type of late-term abortion, a ruling that could portend enormous social, legal and political implications for the divisive issue.

The sharply divided 5-4 ruling could prove historic. It sends a possible signal of the court's willingness, under Chief Justice John Roberts, to someday revisit the basic right to abortion guaranteed in the 1973 Roe v. Wade case.

President Bush, who signed the law in 2003 and appointed two of the justices who upheld it, said the prohibition "represents a commitment to building a culture of life in America."

Michael

The Next President Will Have Enormous Effect on Direction of the court. One issue that is being overlooked this election year is the fact that the next president will likely appoint as many as three Supreme Court justices.


Democratic congress+Obama+liberal left-wing Supreme Court Justice majority = my original comments on the abortion trends that will take place.

You will be helping put a very important piece of the puzzle in place by voting for Obama.

By the way he has said he opposes the federal ban on partial birth abortions.

Again praying God will help you.

P.S. to Frank who so eloquently put
"god......lol
Leave god out of politics. Plain and simple"

We may as well speak different languages. You're so lost, it would be pointless to comment further.

Anonymous said...

I don't know who "anon" is, but maybe if anon actually did some research regarding what Obama shot down and WHY he shot it down, then maybe he/she would sing a different tune.

But of course, like most americans, they'd rather vote on ignorance and not the real issues.

For once, I agree with Mike. There are way too many americans that will vote on issues that the president will actually do NOTHING about.

I am an atheist and proud to be free of the shackels of religion. I don't want my country to suffer more especially in the area of our heatlh care because some people are so caught up in the abortion issue.

I too am against abortion, but right now, we have bigger fish to fry.

But, of course, americans will once again vote with the hearts and not their brains, and we'll end up with another idoit like Bush...and possibly worst...someone like Palin if the old ass keels over.

As for calling me lost, ahhhh, it's cute to see christians try to belittle the opinions of others because they don't see eye to eye with them. It's so much easier to just simply call me "lost" than to address the real issues. Hypocrisy at it's best.

Michael Diaz said...

Anon I understand your fears with abortion, and I too would love nothing more than to NEVER have to explain to my children what it means to abort a child. I would love to be able to simply tell them that it was an archaic, barbaric action that took place in this country's history.

Unfortunatly we live in a country where the majority of it's citizens do not take the time to think things through and reason. We live in a country where people buy into the notion embryonic life is somehow less valuable because it has not developed fully.

It is those same people who will cry foul the minute something is done to stop abortion. In truth abortion is the issue that it is because of the church, and because of the lack of the church to reach out and spread God's message.

You see the problem with abortion is not a problem of politics or a problem of Democrat vs Republican, but a problem of heart. The church has failed to change the hearts of the people because it too has been distracted along the way.

Take the time to watch television, watch how the pastors preach on getting rich, or being in God's graces financially. Watch as several of the church leaders get caught up in scandals that should never be allowed to creep in the church doors.

In all honesty people like Frank see that and are repulsed by it because the very message of Christ is made a mockery as a result, and all that is seen is more Christians behaving badly.

We can end abortion, but again like anything else that is worth doing, it too will require work. To end abortion will take the church, and the love of God. To end abortion we the body of Christ must first win the hearts of man for Christ.

I do not see that happening right now. I see 20 plus years of Republican rule, and not one step towards ending abortion. As a result I will vote for change on issues I believe will and can be changed. I cannot sit by and be a one issue voter when there are so many issues that can and must be addressed. Issues that will also impact life in one way or another.

For instance right now this country is in grave financial crisis. How many lives will be lost if we allow the country to slip into yet another depression? How many lives will be lost if people are left homeless to brave the elements? How many lives will be lost if people are left without quality healthcare?

All of these are issues which I don't see McCain fixing with his tax plans and medical plans. These are issues which the Republican party has had a hand in creating, and making worse.

I hope that you can at least understand my point of view and respect it for what it is. I simply don't see McCain's plan doing anything for this country but making it worse. God Bless You and thank you for reading.

Michael

Anonymous said...

I'm "anon" because the person who shared this blog with me would have wanted me to be. Lost but never without hope of being found. It would be pointless for us to argue "the real issues" though. I believe God is the final authority and you believe man is. We would never get anywhere. I'll leave it at this "amazing grace how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like ME. I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see."
I can only pray that you will be found and Michael will see. In Christ Alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

If it's pointless to argue the real issues, then voting should be pointless.

It ends up being such a waste of time arguing over things that cannot be changed and ignoring things that can be.

Michael Diaz said...

Anon again I do "see" your point of view. I've been affected by abortion more than either of you probably have. I had a girlfriend who had an abortion when I was 18. It affected me more than most people know, and even pushed me to the brink of suicide.

The one thing most people including my parents don't know is that Frank, my cousin the atheist, was there to talk to me and calm me down. The trip I speak of in my latest post, the one to Puerto Rico, came after that event in my life, which is why it was so needed.

I write this not for me or for Frank, but so that you can see that this is an issue near and dear to my heart, and it hurts me to have to conceed that it will not be fixed at this time.

Unfortunatly I don't see either side doing one thing to end abortion. As a result I must focus on the things that can be changed, and pray that God changes the hearts of the American people to change the abortion laws.

I believe that in time, like slavery, these laws will be repealed, but it will only come after the American people see the error of their ways.

McCain's theories on the economy, Iraq, and on healthcare scare me to no end, because I can forsee an America in which people who can't afford medication, will simply just die. I can foresee an America in which the homeless rate jumps to all time highs, and people die as a result of the elements. Iraq is a no win situation. This is not a defeatist attitude, but the truth as I see it. The price at which America could truly win, would be too high to pay both economically and in terms of American lives.

Anonymous said...

As I see it, the Republicans have had time enough to repeal Roe v. Wade under their watch. Has it happened? Uh, no.

As I see it, the issue of same sex marriages is also another issue the republicans have been unable to change. In fact, since the last election, there are more States voting and approving same sex marriages than we had previously.

The important issues for me are the crumbling economy and healthcare. I don't see either one of these two candidates being able to do much in the way of resolving these issues. Since they are only in office for four years and then another four if elected, there isn't time for them to fix what is broken. I am a registered Democrat who has voted Republican most of the time. But I cannot in good conscience vote for for McSame. Why, because just as SNL stated in the recent spoof, a vote for McCain is a vote for four more years of Bush only with a different name.

The only advantage in my opinion to have McCain is his military background which Obama lacks. But the only way we are going to have a change in this great country of ours is to bring in a different party at this point. I say this with a heavy heart because I am a believer in the Lord Jesus. I have been praying for God's will in this election. Folks, it's the only thing we can do.

Anonymous said...

PS: The second anonymous just posted is not the same as the first. I can be referred to as anonymous #2.
But I just thought of something. Anon #1 states we should leave God out of politics and I disagree for this reason; as a believer, God should be in ALL areas of our lives. We need to pray for His guidance as to what to do as far as voting is concerned. This election in particular has been a real challenge because even hard lined Republicans are conflicted as to how to vote. When you have a respected man like James Dobson who is a Christian psychologist making the statement that he himself was conflicted, you know something is terribly rotten in Denmark.

God and politics don't mix, but we as believers cannot take God out of the equation. As for any atheist, why even mention someone you believe does not exist?

Furthermore, no matter how we vote, God's will always is done before ours. How else can we explain the Hitlers and Bin Laden's of the world? God allowed them to lead their respective countrymen. Why? Don't know. That's one of the many questions I will discuss with God when I get to glory.

Michael Diaz said...

Anonymous #2

Actually Frank said to leave God out of politics. Anon 1 would like for me to reconsider my vote because of the abortion issue. Whatever quote was in anon 1's post was a quote of Frank's dialog. Personally I agree that we should seek guidance from the Holy Spirit in all that we do, and I have. Being an atheist, Frank does not really understand this, which is why it is foreign to him.

As for God being in total control, I agree. There are many cases throughout the Bible where someone flawed, or even down right evil is used by God to accomplish a task that will give Him the glory. For instance the Pharaoh in Egypt, who killed many children to get rid of Moses, only to be thwarted by God. King David, who was said to be a man after God’s own heart, but who was obviously a flawed individual, and killed a man to posses his wife. Herod the Great who also killed many children, but was unable to hold that same power over Jesus. The Romans who carried out the request to have Jesus killed, even though they did so with God’s own blessing.

All of these seemingly bad people were used by God to fulfill His will. As for Barack Obama, I do not know his heart, only God does. I’ve prayed for guidance about my choice and I feel a peace about it that I would usually never feel voting for someone who is ok with abortion. Who knows maybe God will change his heart like He changed Paul’s heart, but again that is beyond my control. Personally I see in him a better President than McCain, for reasons stated above.

As for “That's one of the many questions I will discuss with God when I get to glory.” I feel I should remind you that in the end it will be God alone who gets any and all glory not any one man or woman.

Anonymous said...

Sorry, I must have read the entry incorrectly. However, if Frank the atheist said God should be left out of politics, he makes for a poor atheist since in his opinion there is no God. So which is it, does God exist to Frank or not? If God exists, like it or not, He already is involved in politics. God ALONE is in control. Whomever wins is because God allowed it. Nothing happens without God allowing it. If there is no God, then Frank has no problem. But I would venture to say that Frank will have a problem when he dies and comes before the God that he thinks is not real. Personally, as a believer, I am not willing to take that chance. I lose nothing for believing while in this earthly body. I will lose everything for not believe while in my spiritual body. Furthermore, it is my opinion that believers have the best life can offer. I speak not of earthly materials, but of spiritual light. I thanks to Jesus, no longer live in darkness. I also thank Jesus for all those persons in my life who have enriched it so beautifully. Two things I cannot do without, Jesus and my family.

I would never take glory away from God. So my point about asking Him certain questions when I get to glory is not about wanting God's glory. In my opinion, we all have questions to ask of God.
Questioning does not make us disrespectful or take away from God's glory. I agree with you that no one can do that, although many have tried and will try until the Lord returns.

Anonymous said...

I need to address 2 things because there seems to be a lack of reading comprehension going on here:

1.
“Personally I agree that we should seek guidance from the Holy Spirit in all that we do, and I have. Being an atheist, Frank does not really understand this, which is why it is foreign to him. “

- Frank does understand this fully. Never would I expect or even want you to not seek guidance from whatever deity you believe is there for you. What I did say, was that your god should be left out of everyone’s politics. The explanation of which I will get into in point # 2 which addresses Anon’s post.

2.
” Frank the atheist said God should be left out of politics, he makes for a poor atheist since in his opinion there is no God. So which is it, does God exist to Frank or not?”

- I am just Frank, not Frank the atheist. My being an atheist does not define me as that. It is of my opinion that there is no god. I didn’t say leave (G)od out of politics, I said leave (g)od out of politics. Let me clarify, I do not believe in a god, but I know you do. I don’t expect you dismiss your belief for me, but I do expect that you do not try to involve your beliefs in a system that will affect me. Mike said that as a Christian he should seek guidance from the holy spirit. That guidance is personal to him as it should be to any christian. However, I fear when “some” christians rather “live in a depression” so that their personal religious beliefs are enforced on all. Your god is asking YOU to fulfill his will…he is NOT asking you to enforce his will on others. So yeah, when I say god should be left out of politics, I say it from the point of a non-believer. God….christian god, pagan gods, Crom, Zeus, Atlas or raptor jesus….leave them all out of politics. American is the melting pot of the world.

Anonymous said...

As a Christian I would rather be in a recession/depression and have partial birth abortion continue to be banned! No person who walks into a hospital in the USA is denied care, insured or not. Also, it's interesting that 70% of the military is voting for McCain. My vote for McCain is not because he's my ideal candidate but because it's a vote against Obama. The deception he is pulling off is astounding! Do African-Americans not realize that abortion is the number one killer of their race over the last 35 years? Check out Blackgenocide.org for some staggering numbers. I am overwhelmed with the amount of people voting for this socialist thinking, immoral liar.

Anonymous said...

I don't see what a corrupt America has to do with Obama and abortion, but ok.

Here's the thing that really gets to me, and Mike feels the same way (and thankfully, so do most Americans)....for someone to say that they'd rather live in a depression and have partial birth abortion continued to be banned is scary.

As Mike mentioned in another blog post (you know, where this post should have gone) he pointed out what most Americans already know, even if we get McCain, he will do nothing about abortion either.

So, this is what we are left with the following:
1. Obama - won't do anything about abortion
OR
2. McCain - won't do anything about abortion

Either way we look at it, neither will do anything.
Now the choice is yours, but it's obvious it's been made, and you'd rather pick a president that could very well lead us into a depression (which would also affect the world) AND we'll still have a country with abortions and partial abortions. Kudus.

Incorrect statement made....."No person who walks into a hospital in the USA is denied care, insured or not."
I have worked in health care for over 13 years, and I can attest to this statement being 100% incorrect. Yes, you can walk into an emergency room with a life endagering issue and the ER is required to help you (YOU WILL GET BILLED LATER), but hospitals are not made up of only ERs.

Michael Diaz said...

Anonymous I have every respect for your opinion, but it is simply that, your opinion.

I do find it naïve, that in your opinion, a depression would be better for the country than solving the issue of partial birth abortions. While I am against abortion I do not think that you know the gravity of a depression.

During the 1930's roughly between 12 and 15 million Americans died of starvation, as a result of the Great Depression. These numbers do not account for the abnormally high suicide rate, or those who died as a result of the elements. Twelve to Fifteen million in a time when America’s total population was only 121,767,000 is roughly 1.2% of the population. Factor in that the US is almost 3 times as large now or 305,563,000 and you get a death toll of 3,666,756. With this you need to look at the projection of abortions increasing from their yearly 1 million in the US to a higher number, because now that abortion is legal, those who may never have considered it just might, if only to have one less mouth to feed. You must also take into account the higher crime rates that will result from desperation, which will undoubtedly raise the murder rate. Then there’s the higher drug use rate, which will go up, as people try to escape their problems. Do you really think this is a fair price to pay for an issue that McCain will do absolutely NOTHING about? Please think this through and get back to me when you’ve educated yourself a little better.
As for being a lying socialist, that strikes me as a bit judgmental from a Christian. Remember you are NOT God. You do not know a person’s heart, or their thoughts, and if anything McCain has lied as many times, if not more, than Obama in this election. Unfortunately they’re politicians, and lying is part of their character.

If you’d look at this country without the blinders, you’d see that wealth has been redistributed throughout history both up and down. Currently under Bush, the wealth has gone to the top 1-5% of the population. This happened at another time in our history, just prior to the Great Depression. This partially led to the Great Depression, which was partially the result of a disproportionate distribution of wealth, presided over by a Republican President. By the time he attempted to fix the problem, by raising the corporate tax, he was too late and America was smack in the middle of a Depression. This has recently been used by McCain to show that the last time a President raised taxes in a recession, he caused a depression, talk about a blatant ½ lie. But like most Americans you would probably never think to look this up and verify its truthfulness.

There are so many parallels between that time and ours that it’s mind boggling, if you take the time to study them. For instance just prior to the depression spending was down, and concern for the economy was up. People were not buying the cars and homes that companies were producing. All it takes is a trip to the local Best Buy to realize the parallel here. Sales are down, stores are hurting, and Americans are only buying necessities, because of their concern. This drives the economy down as businesses who have made windfall profits as a result of lower taxes have no one to buy their goods. This country cannot stomach another Great Depression, because unlike during the 1930’s when the US had loaned money to Europe, we now owe more than we have.

Again no disrespect is intended, but please do the research, read, and don’t simply live in a sound bite world, where your only opinion comes from Fox News. After tomorrow this will all be decided and over. I for one am happy, but I’ll be happier if Obama wins.

Anonymous said...

I completely stand by what I've said. Our country deserves a depression(and I do know the gravity) in a lot of ways. "God bless America" is such a stretch, seeing what we have become. I will continue to fight the good fight! As a Christian, loving wife/mother, Church member/leader, great friend/encourager, soon to be foster parent, sponsor for two needy children, good neighbor, conservative, small business owner, honest/hardworking, and thankful that even with all that I know for certain it is in Christ alone that I am what I am(and am humbled). There MUST BE a final moral authority and mine is not fox news or what any man(or woman) thinks it should be! On Christ the solid rock I stand all other ground is sinking sand!

FYI: judgemental? you will know them by their fruit!

I have been saddened by this blog and the choice for president tonight. How deceived our nation has become.

Michael Diaz said...

I am saddened by your belief that the United States "deserves" to go into a depression. I liken this to the statements made by the Westboro Baptist Church, which say that our service men and women deserve to die because their country allows homosexuality. Or the statements made by Rev. Wright, which state that God should damn America for its behavior towards African Americans. Statements like these do not belong in God’s church, nor should they come from the mouths of Christians anywhere.

While God is a God of justice and order, He is also a God of love, and His primary requirement for salvation states that it should be a willing act, and not one made from either fear of retribution, or a desire to seem above others.

I am reminded of Christ’s teachings to His disciples in which He explains why one woman who gave very little, was blessed more than those who gave more. Mark 12:41-44. This woman did so from the heart, and not so that people could see her righteousness. I find that those who boast of their righteousness are usually the ones with the most skeletons in their closet.

This also brings to mind Rev. 3:20 “'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. ...” God does not kick the door down, but instead waits upon us to make our choice. No where in the Bible does God force Himself on the unrepentant. God simply provides the gift, and it is up to us to accept it.

Has this country fallen away from God? Yes it has, but it is no longer the Christian nation it once was. America has become a melting pot of people, beliefs, and ideas. It is our job as the church to win souls for Christ, not through fear or intimidation, but through an outpouring of love. Corinthians 13 states that a person can have every gift given by God, but if they are without love they are nothing.

As Christians when faced with sin or unrighteousness, it is sometimes easier to fall back on the stance Jonah took, which is to ask for God’s wrath, than it is to ask for God’s mercy and love. As Christians it is our job of living in the world but not becoming like the world, but it is also a more important task to be a beacon to the world. The only way we will ever be able to wipe out abortions is through love. We need to remind ourselves daily to love the sinner and hate the sin, but NEVER to confuse the two and show hatred or anger towards the sinner. Only love can overcome evil, as was proven on Calvary, and we need to be examples of this love and not examples of God’s hate for sin.

I too am saddened by the state of affairs in this country, but I live happy in the knowledge that God has already overcome the world and all of it's problems.

Michael Diaz said...

P.S.

You may never have the chance to change the heart of a Barack Obama, or his support of abortion, but you do have the chance to change the hearts of those around you.

Obama won this campaign and the hearts of the people one city at a time, one person at a time. That is the only way we will be able to win the hearts of the people in America.

Obama offered them change and hope, which is something that Christians have in spades. It would be a shame to see the people offered shame and hate instead.

Anonymous said...

"I am reminded of Christ’s teachings to His disciples in which He explains why one woman who gave very little, was blessed more than those who gave more. Mark 12:41-44. This woman did so from the heart, and not so that people could see her righteousness. I find that those who boast of their righteousness are usually the ones with the most skeletons in their closet."

I agree wholeheartedly! I just want to put a person behind the words. It's sometimes hard to do this as anon.

I am grieved by the direction our country has taken and know that God is a loving but wrathful God. The Bible is full of verses supporting God loving but also punishing His children. His voice on hurting innocent children is very clear in His word. I never said I wanted a depression, just that it would not be undeserved. I can only pray that God continues to have mercy on us. Throughout scripture He does not ALWAYS have mercy!

There is no hate in my heart but sometimes a little bit of righteous anger.

I can say that you are a skilled writer/debater and pray that your heart is somehow in the right place? I have learned a lot from this blog and feel I have been strengthened in my relationship with the Lord as a result.

I wish you no ill-will. I think it's hard to truly know someone's heart through a blog alone. I will be continuing this discussion with a few friends who follow your line of thinking. I like hearing things from a different perspective.

I will leave you with something I read today and is very applicable.

Luke 6:20-26

Frank- walking with the King- there's nothing like it! Pray you will be able to experience it for yourself one day! :)

Anonymous said...

Anon 2:

After reading all the comments I applaude all for their opinions. Although it is true that God can at times be a wrathful God, He is first and foremost a loving God.

We also need reminding that God allows people into power "for such a time as this".

As a country, the USA sorely needed "change". We have had eight years of dumb down leadership. Clinton may have been a womanizer, but during his administration we all had jobs and the country was financially sound. Of course part of our current financial woes are Clinton's fault. But eight years of two wars; the highest number of unemployed in recent history; home foreclosures, a trillion dollar rescue to corporate America, it was inevitable that Barack Obama would win. Poor little John McCain did not stand a chance because he was running under the very administration that has done nothing about our state of disrepair. He ran under the Republican party which for some apparently unknown reason is always thought of as the "Christian" party. How far from the truth. In recent months, several republican governors and/or senators have had to admit to not only adultery, but adultery with people of their same sex.

Let's stop equating Republican with Christian. That is just not true and frankly as a Christian, I am insulted to be thrown in with this pack of deceivers. Although I am a registered Democrat, I have mainly voted Republican. In recent years, however, I have seen the error of thinking that voting Republican will keep God in the White House. God is in the White House whether Dem. or Rep. Let's get over these separations. Let's open our eyes and see politicians for what they are....human just like us and therefore open to every temptation known to man. Let's stop dividing the country and start working towards unity. We have a new President who God allowed into office. Sit back and enjoy the ride because I am certain we will see yet another human who will fail at many decisions and will succeed at others. We will stand with this new President right or wrong just as we have with GW Bush who could not have been more wrong on more occasions.

On a recent trip I saw a sign on the highway which was similar to the "no smoking" signs showing a cigarette with a red line across it. The sign read "McSame".

I pray for both candidates and will support our President although he was definitely not my first choice. But given the gravity of the "state of affairs" in our once great nation, I saw no other choice but to vote against "McSame".

God allowed this new president into office "for such a time as this"....let's pray for him and watch him age as he tackles what will definitely be the toughest transition in recent history. We won't have to worry about GW Bush taking the furniture from the White House, but if things don't change financially in this country, I can assure you that "Joe the plumber"; "Joe six-pack" and your everyday common folks like myself will have no other option than to move into the White House when they foreclose on our homes.

May God have mercy on President-elect Obama and help him to make the decisions which will bring America back to greatness. That's my prayer and I am not one bit disappointed with the results because after all is said and done, God is still on His throne and still in control.